A certain "Full Preterist", (aka 30-70AD Millenialist), argued saying:
"Please allow me to go back to the basics for a minute. As Jesus was explaining to His disciples sitting around Him in Matt 24 what the signs of the end would be, Jesus established the "time frame". Matt 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. As Preterists we believe all these things came to pass with the fall of Herod’s temple in AD 70."
What the 30-70AD Millennialist writes here is accurate enough IF we confine his statements strictly to the actual events described in Matt 24. But he does not. The very fact that his comments were in response to my rejection of his 30-70AD Millennium is evidence that he, (as those he studies), mentally insert Rev 20:1-10's events into the text of Matt 24. Simply nowhere to be found in Matt 24 is any mention of a 1000, 40, or 13 year "Millennium" which:
What the "Full Preterist", (30-70AD Millenialist), is really getting at here as "The Basics of Preterism," (as has been presented to him), is 30-70AD Millenialism's overarching notion for Bible interpretation:
#1) "Not just Matt 24's events, but ALL LAW & PROPHETS MUST BE FULFILLED BY 70AD."
A great expose' of this error may be found here: http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/Progressive/2001_mckenzie_not-fulfilled-ad70.html by Duncan McKenzie. For the sake of brevity, I will go on to add to Duncan McKenzie's arguments with the following:
[Take particular note of how different Greek words, (significantly different Strong's #'s), still find connection between Prophetic Utterance & Historic Fulfillment. Why? Because the connections of word-meaning are every bit as strong as connections of word-grammar, if not more so]. CONTEXT.
Matthew 5:17-20 (around 27AD, at the beginning of Jesus' public ministry)
Think not that I am come to destroy the Law [of Moses], or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil (Strong's #4137). 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law [of Moses], till all be fulfilled (Strong's #1096). 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Pre-70AD Millennialism, (a la Max King-era preterism), would have us to believe that this statement by Jesus means that the Old Testament Law of Moses was to remain binding and in full effect until all the Law & Prophets are fulfilled; and that this fulfillment did not occur until 70AD. This notion is what drives them to insist that whatever is found in pages of the Bible MUST be fulfilled before 70AD because the Law of Moses remains binding until all is fulfilled. But let's consider something else Jesus said:
John 19:28-30 (around 30AD, at the ending of Jesus' public ministry)
After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished (#5055), that the scripture might be fulfilled (#5048), saith, "I thirst!" 29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished!" (#5055): and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Whatever Pre-70AD Millennialism may say this means, here's what "It is finished! (#5055)" meant to Paul back around 58AD, long prior to 70AD's "all things fulfilled," (so-called).
Romans 10:3-4 (around 58AD, when Paul departs from Corinth, well prior to 70AD's supposed "fulfillment of all [Bible] things")
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end (#5056) of the Law [of Moses] for righteousness to every one that believeth.
And here's a glimpse of how Peter & Paul's understanding of "It is finished! (#5055)" worked out into the daily lives of Christians back around 49AD, long before "all things fulfilled" (supposedly) in 70AD.
Galatians 2:11-21 (around 49AD, Paul, the new guy, publically confronts veteran leader Peter at one of the first Christian conferences ever)
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, "If thou [Peter], being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law [of Moses], but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the Law [of Moses]: for by the works of the Law [of Moses] shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the Law [of Moses] am dead to the Law [of Moses], that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the Law [of Moses], then Christ is dead in vain!"
Paul, a Hebrew of the Hebrews, a (former) Pharisee son of a Pharisee, (Philippians 3:5-8), was so certain that "all be fulfilled" already to retire the Law [of Moses] per Mat 5:18 that he considered obedience to the commandments of the Law [of Moses] entirely optional. Paul would freely obey or discard the Law [of Moses] depending upon the cultural concerns of whatever people group he was trying to reach for Christ. Obeying even the least of those commandments was for Paul strictly a cultural concern of sensitivity towards reaching followers of Old Testament Judaism for Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:18-23 (around 57 AD, Paul writes to the church at Corinth)
When I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. 19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the Law [of Moses], as under the Law [of Moses], that I might gain them that are under the Law [of Moses]; 21 To them that are without Law [of Moses], as without Law [of Moses], (being not without law to God, but under the Law of Christ,) that I might gain them that are without Law [of Moses]. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
So, did Christ, the churches, and Paul and Peter themselves consider themselves "the least in the kingdom of heaven" because they broke the commandments of the Law of Moses and "lived after the manner of Gentiles"? I dare any Pre-70 Millennialist to say that they were. No, it was the Judaizers who went around saying things like, "All things have not been fulfilled yet, so Jesus says you need to keep obeying the Law [of Moses] until they are!" So we see that Pre-70AD Millennialism has something very much in common with the Judaizers, the NT enemies of the Gospel. (Not to mention again the inescapable connection with Universalism via Pre-70AD Millenialism's Gnostic-style deviation from orthodox resurrection). Remember, it was Hymenaeus & Philetus who were saying things like, "Since the 1st resurrection of the just that is already past was all about people "coming to spiritual life" in Christ (Rev 20:4), the resurrection of the rest of the dead when Jesus comes back will be about everybody else "coming to spiritual life" in Christ (Rev 20:5), too: nobody but the Devil is going to Hell!" (2 Tim 2:11-18 Phillippians 3:10-13).
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Evidently enough, Christ, the Apostles & the churches of the 30-70AD period believed and taught that all things necessary to retire the Old Testament Law & Prophets, all the things Jesus had been talking about in the Matt 5:17-20 context, had already been fulfilled at Jesus' death shout from the Cross, "It is finished!" (John 19:30).
Colossians 2:13-17 (around 62AD, Paul writes to the church at Colossae)
...Having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; ... 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Below here is what the Apostles & the churches thought of those still teaching that the Law [of Moses] must still be kept up "until all things be fulfilled" someday, (supposedly) at 70AD.
Galatians 3:9-15 (around 49AD, Paul still recounting the meaning behind his public confrontation of Peter's hypocrisy)
So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the Law [of Moses] are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law [of Moses] to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the Law [of Moses] in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the Law [of Moses] is NOT of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law [of Moses], being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. ...Acts 15:5-35
But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. … 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they [Gentile converts to Christ]. … 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, … 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. 22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, Cilicia: and 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, … 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; … they delivered the epistle: 31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced …
So again, In review here: Did Christ, the churches, and Paul and Peter themselves consider themselves "the least in the Kingdom of Heaven" because they broke the commandments of the Law of Moses and "lived after the manner of Gentiles" per Gal 2:14? NO. (I dare any Pre-70 Millennialist to say that they were). No, it was the Judaizers who went around saying things like, "All things have not been fulfilled yet, so Jesus says you need to keep obeying the Law [of Moses] until they are!" So we see that Pre-70AD Millennialism has something very much in common with the Judaizers, the New Testament enemies of the Gospel. (Not to mention again the inescapable connection with Universalism via Pre-70AD Millenialism's Gnostic-style deviations from orthodox resurrection). Remember, it was Hymenaeus & Philetus who were saying things like, "Since the 1st resurrection of the just that is already past was all about people "coming to spiritual life" in Christ (Rev 20:4), the resurrection of the rest of the dead when Jesus comes back will be about everybody else "coming to spiritual life" in Christ (Rev 20:5), too: nobody but the Devil is going to Hell!" (2 Tim 2:11-18 Phillippians 3:10-13). Nowhere to be found in Matt 24 is any mention of a 1000, 40, or 13 year "Millennium" which 1) starts with Satan being bound/Abyssed/sealed while Nero-Beast-Martyred Saints "come to [spiritual] life" & ruling with Christ and then 2) ends with Satan's release as the wicked "come to [spiritual] life" as Jesus comes back. Its just not there.
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The Scriptures cited here above show plainly enough what the Apostles & the churches thought of those still teaching that the Law [of Moses] must still be kept up "until all things be fulfilled" (supposedly) at 70AD. Evidently enough, Christ, the Apostles & the churches of the 30-70AD period believed and taught that all things necessary to retire the Old Testament Law & Prophets, all the things Jesus had been talking about in the Matt 5:17-20 context, had already been fulfilled at Jesus' death shout from the Cross, "It is finished!" (John 19:30).
Evidently enough, understanding phrases "all things fulfilled" requires more than a few connect-the-dots Greek word associations that 30-70AD Millennialism puts so much, too much, stock into. Understanding requires we look at what the Apostles understood it to mean, as well, comparing Scripture-Text with Scripture-Text, Scripture-Meaning with Scripture-Meaning, considering date/place/time/audience/expectations CONTEXT as well as well-informed, external confirmations from objective historical evidences, ie, unimaginary, real, live Scripture-History connections. This is not a religion that's all in the head.
Again, a great expose' of the 30-70AD Millennialism: "All Things Fulfilled 70AD" error may be found here: http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/Progressive/2001_mckenzie_not-fulfilled-ad70.html by Duncan McKenzie. I differ with him in that I actually name an ending date to the Millennium that started at Christ's circa 70AD Return. I place it an actual thousand years later. /node/506