+ 70-1070AD | Prophecy + History

I see room for a circa 70AD rapture of the sort Ed Stevens & Walt Hibbard describe from 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 that accompanies the John 14:1-3 reality that Jesus brings the New Jerusalem with Him at His Return.

(And Rev 21-22's "New Jerusalem" is Hebrews 12:22's "Heavenly Jerusalem" which is Galatians 4:26's "Jerusalem which is above" which is the home Jesus goes away to prepare for us in John 14:1-3. I think we are agreed here, right? Interesting how at Mt. Sinai the leading men and Moses are called upward to meet the LORD at His coming to the Hebrews).

It was an interesting night when I happened through Ardmore, OK one Wednesday night to visit Don Preston's church. Don was trying his best to shoot down the idea of any rapture while preaching through the Greek of 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17. But the more evidence from the biblical Greek expressions around the term "parousia" that he brought out, the more he had to honestly admit how it is employed to speak of the ancient practice of local dignitaries meeting together up the road outside their town to welcome and accompany a visiting higher dignitary that final leg of journey. He also had to admit honestly that "air" in v17 is used in ancient Greek for "the atmosphere above." It was so ironic because, as he was quoting commentaries he was expressing his amazement at how the commentators often would occasionally end up providing better evidences for the positions they were straining to refute than the ones they were trying to promote. And here I was witnessing him doing the very same thing. May God bless Don Preston, he is a good guy, however, afterall. So I see a rapture occurring as Jesus is beginning His final descent of Return, (although I have not proved it here but merely mentioned it). And Don Preston inadvertently provided me with more support for my long-held position.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

John 14:3

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

*Feel FREE to claim as your own anything I write - while I retain the right to do the same the same with it.*

And this is love: that we keep Christ's commandments ~ 2 John 6

Timeline:

Martyrs from Tribulation come to life and reign with Christ 1000 years

Satan chained in prison in the Abyss

the Sabbath Day Rest

+ 70-1070AD

. 1000 YEARS

70-1070AD Day of Judgment = 1 Day with Lord = 1000 Years = Day of the Lord = Day of God -- 2 Peter 3:2-14

2 Peter 3:2-14 ~ (written around 63AD, about the same time as Revelation, when those first Christians wondered at its meaning)
You should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles. 3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? ... the present heavens and earth by His word are being reserved for fire, kept for THE DAY OF JUDGMENT and destruction of ungodly men.

8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that WITH THE LORD ONE DAY IS AS A THOUSAND YEARS, AND A THOUSAND YEARS AS ONE DAY. 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. 10 But THE DAY OF THE LORD will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of THE DAY OF GOD, on account of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation;
NASB

DAY OF JUDGMENT = 1 DAY WITH THE LORD = 1000 YEARS = 1 DAY = DAY OF THE LORD = DAY OF GOD

Revelation 20:1-10
And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a THOUSAND YEARS, 3 and threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he should not deceive the nations any longer, until the THOUSAND YEARS were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a THOUSAND YEARS. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a THOUSAND YEARS.

7 And when the THOUSAND YEARS are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
NASB

The problem I see here is that non-preterist folk are so consentrated on the 1000 year time frame that they miss a simple phrase that put this verse in a symbolic frame work. "as is" is not to be taken literal.

RESPONSE

From the very first centuries of Christianity, major Christian writings have considered Rev 20:1-10's "The 1,000 Years" to represent an actual 1,000 years of history. Those who have taken "The 1,000 Years" to be figurative, have consistently regarded it to represent a very, very long period of time; if not infinite. The fact that Rev 20:1-10 marks the beginning and ending points of "The 1,000 Years" with notable epoch events communicates clearly that "The 1,000 Years" is a finite span of time. Therefore, it is definitely beyond historic, mainstream, global Christian understanding to regard Rev 20:1-10's "The 1,000 Years" as fitting within the 30-70AD or the Romans 16:20 - 70AD timeframes as the 30-70AD Millennialists attempt to teach. Also, it is commonly understood how the Lord spoke through Daniel's prophecy regarding a "week" as 7 years. And most accept the fact that 7 actual years = "1 week" in that prophecy about "the 70 Weeks." But there definitely is no room for taking 2 Peter 3:8 to mean: “Well, with the Lord one day is as a 1000 years, or as an even 40, maybe a shag less than 14 years, or not: the Lord really cannot tell time like we do.” Futurists and 30-70AD Millennialists alike resort to that kind of talk when encountering any time Text that does not fit their forced configurations. No, with godly fear Peter doggedly sticks to the formula given to him by inspiration, saying it two times, both ways, really emphasizing that no matter which way one comes at it, no matter which way readers try to slice it or dice it, it is clear: “With the Lord: '1 Day' = 1000 years, 1000 years = '1 Day.'” "A is as B" can reasonably mean "A is equal to B," as both ancient and modern language would express it.

Borrowing from Gen 41:32
"The reason it was given in two forms is that the matter has been firmly decided by God, and God will do it soon."

It's a comparison showing God's patience.

RESPONSE

Granted. It is also showing that there is a strong link between the "1,000 Years" language and "A Day with the Lord" (= "The Day of the Lord" ="The Day of God" = "The Day of Judgment" = "The Last Day" = "The Sabbath Rest"). As long patient as God was to finally bring in "The 1,000 Years," He was every bit as much long patient to make sure "The 1,000 Years" last. It also tells us that this "Day of the Lord" ("The 1,000 Years") had still not yet begun as of the writing of 2 Peter 3:8 around 63AD: Peter was telling them to hold out a bit longer for its long-anticipated arrival. There is no honest way that "The 1,000 Years" had begun prior to the writing of 2 Peter 3:8 as 30-70AD Millennialism attempts to teach.

Not that he's literally going to hang around for 1000 years for his final judgement.

RESPONSE

Nowhere is it said here that God's Final Judgment begins after "The 1,000 Years" end. There is nothing in Scripture that gives that impression, either; nothing except that the visionary vignette of Rev 20:11-15 is described to us after John described the visionary vignette of Rev 20:4-10. Just because one vision is described before another one is described does not mean that the events foreseen happen one after another. Actually, beginning at Rev 18:2's announcement of Babylon-Jerusalem's Fall, each time John writes, "And I saw," he shows us another visionary vignette detailing the immediate consequences of that Fall of Babylon-Jerusalem which occured in human history at 70AD. John shows us the listing of various reasons why Heaven celebrates ancient Jerusalem's fall. The Great White Throne Judgment, as described in Rev 20:11-15, began at Christ's 70AD Return to judge the living and the dead: and it is an ongoing court of Judgment that has no ending. It is going on today and you and I and everyone else will face it to give account for the deeds done in the body and every idle word we have spoken.

If the 1000 in Revelations is to be taken literal and the starting piont is A.D.70, then the final judgement, (or 3rd appearing), has already happened.

RESPONSE

True. The Great White Throne Judgment seat was established long ago - at Christ's Return as the "Judge of the Living & the Dead" around 70AD. This seat of Judgment never ends but is ongoing to our day and forever. See above answer. There is nothing in Scripture that speaks as you do of a "3rd appearing:" Once Jesus came back around 70AD, He never left us again. And there is nothing in Scripture that speaks as you do of the Great White Throne Judgment being a final, one-time, momentary event that occurs for a cession and then calls it done and over with. Just like the first, initial moment of "New Birth" into Christ, each individual experiences it as a momentary process of entering into Salvation, but it is extended by God to Mankind forever for infinite generations to come. So is the forever, ongoing process of final Judgment. "Its is appointed unto man once to die, and then the Judgment."

This make no sense whatsoever.

RESPONSE

That is the usual remark made by those who do not understand what they have only begun to consider. Every accepted opinion was at one time regarded as eccentric. Do you have ears to hear, yet hear not?

There is notihing confusing about the facts that:

1) Jesus said He would Return with His Kingdom & Power before all those who heard His preaching died, Matthew 16:28 & Mark 9:1
2) Jesus raised up the Dead in Christ first as He Returned at the Last Day, John 6:40 & John 6:54 & 1 Thessalonians 4:16
3) Rev 20:1-10's 1000 years began at this raising up of these Dead in Christ, the First Resurrection of Revelation 20:4-6
4) This 1000 Years is as a Day with the Lord = Day of Judgment = Day of the Lord = Day of God which was still future as of the writing of 2 Peter 3:4-12
5) The Rest of the Dead were raised up at the end of this 1000-year-long Day of the Lord, Revelation 20:5a

I strongly recommend Parousia: The New Testament Doctrine of Our Lord's Second Coming by J. Stuart Russell

Russell visits virtually every Bible passage dealing with the Lord's Second Coming; many, many of which refer directly to the long anticipated "Day of the Lord" / "Day of God" / "Day of Judgment" / "The Last Day" / "The Lord's Day."

I also recommend one consider again the article here: J.S. Russells Position on the Millennium, the Neglected Third Way of Preterism

Timeline:

Martyrs from Tribulation come to life and reign with Christ 1000 years

Satan chained in prison in the Abyss

the Sabbath Day Rest

+ 70-1070AD

. 1000 YEARS

70AD-ONGOING Inner-Man & Outer-Man: the 2 Parts of Resurrection

IF "resurrection" is the answer to "death,"

THEN we might gain some insight into the meaning of "resurrection" by reviewing some facts about "death."

FACT: God warned Adam that he would "die" the "day" he ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil. "Day" had already been defined in this context by saying "there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day," etc., (Gen 1:31), the period between &quo

Timeline:

Martyrs from Tribulation come to life and reign with Christ 1000 years

Satan chained in prison in the Abyss

the Sabbath Day Rest

+ 70-1070AD

. 1000 YEARS

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SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST: CONTINUES FOREVER-->
<--EARTH, HEAVEN, JERUSALEM, "THE AGE THAT NOW IS"		"THE AGE TO COME", NEW HEAVEN, NEW EARTH, NEW JERUSALEM, CHRIST & SAINTS REIGN: CONTINUE FOREVER-->
		RESURRECTION OF THE BLESSED: CONTINUES FOREVER-->
Cross	Tribulation	Rapture with Return of Christ	Millennium	RESURRECTION OF THE REST OF THE DEAD: CONTINUES FOREVER-->
	Satan as a roaring lion walked about	Satan bound	Satan shut up	Satan loosed	Satan deceived nations	SATAN IN LAKE OF FIRE: CONTINUES FOREVER-->
	O.T. Temple persecuted Christians	O.T. Temple destroyed by Fire	Nations discipled		Gog & Magog compassed Camp of Saints	Gog & Magog devoured by Fire from Heaven
30 AD	30-70 AD	70 AD	70-1070 AD	1070 AD	1070 AD UNTIL REFORMATION	REFORMATION
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