Rev 20:4 "come to life" = "come to life" of Rev 20:5

Response to ProphecyHistory.com's "Rev 20 & Universalism"
[D quoting W]
>> .....could you take just a brief moment and fill me in on
> > how you view the Rev. 20 passage and how a wrong view there
> > can open the door to universalism........

[D quoting ProphecyHistory.com]
> 5) When one then reads Revelation 20:5 and sees that "the
> rest of the dead" eventually "came to life" with the same
> grammar and vocabulary by which the Just of Revelation 20:4
> "come to life" earlier, he natually concludes that "the rest
> of the dead" eventually come to "be born again," or "have
> eternal life," or attain the same "spirituo- covenant
> STANCE with God."
>
> 6) He concludes that whether one lays down his life as a
> martyr for Jesus (Rev 20:4) or if goes along with the rest of
> the dead (Rev 20:5), his final status with God is the same:
> he attains to the same "spirituo-covenant STANCE with God."
> That belief is commonly known as Universalism.

[D] Hi John, :)

Those who took part in "the first resurrection" were "blessed and holy" (Rev. 20:4-6). The implication is that not everyone who took part in the subsequent resurrection was blessed and holy. Rev. 20:12-15 confirms that not everyone who partook of the latter resurrection was blessed and holy.
In the Received Text, "the same vocabulary" is not used. In Rev. 20:4, the Greek word is zao (lived). In Rev. 20:5, the Greek word is anazao (lived again). But even if we go with the Alexandrian textbase, which uses the same word in both verses, the fact that those who took part in "the first resurrection" and those who made up "the rest of the dead" both had "life" ("zao") does not necessarily mean that they both had the same kind of life. In Rev. 13:14, the beast also "came to life" ("same vocabulary": zao). In Rev. 16:3, every soul that had "life" died ("same vocabulary": zao). In Rev. 19:20, the beast and the false prophet were both cast "alive" into the lake of fire ("same vocabulary": zao). These instances of "life" (zao) in the book of Revelation do not mean the same kind of life. Therefore no conclusion can be drawn from the mere repetition of the word in Rev. 20:4 and 5.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice [the gospel] of the Son of God; and those who hear shall live [the first resurrection]. (Jn. 5:25)

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs [the rest of the dead] shall hear His voice, and shall come forth [i.e., shall live]; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment" (Jn. 5:28,29).

D
.
Rebuttal: Rev 20:4’s “come to life” = “come to life” of Rev 20:5
[D quoting W] .....could you take just a brief moment and fill me in on how you view the Rev. 20 passage and how a wrong view there can open the door to universalism........
[ProphecyHistory.com] Let us notice how W asked for a brief explanation specifically about Rev 20 and nothing more.
[D quoting ProphecyHistory.com]
5) When one then reads Revelation 20:5 and sees that "the rest of the dead" eventually "came to life" with the same grammar and vocabulary by which the Just of Revelation 20:4 "come to life" earlier, he naturally concludes that "the rest of the dead" eventually come to "be born again," or "have eternal life," or attain the same "spirituo- covenant STANCE with God."
6) He concludes that whether one lays down his life as a martyr for Jesus (Rev 20:4) or if goes along with the rest of the dead (Rev 20:5), his final status with God is the same: he attains to the same "spirituo-covenant STANCE with God." That belief is commonly known as Universalism.
[ProphecyHistory.com] Notice how you, (D), omitted mention of the context I provided by omitting my point 4). Was it inconvenient to your argument? Here it is again:
[from original article by ProphecyHistory.com]
4) When this span of time [Rev 20:1-10's "Thousand Years"] is made to terminate at 70AD, the beginning point is made to be sometime during the lifetime of the New Testament writers. This forces the Resurrection of the Just (v4) to become something that the New Testament writers already possessed while still in their bodies of flesh, (the error of 2 Timothy 2:18 – “the timing” does indeed affect “the nature”). The Resurrection of the Just, (Revelation 20:4), then becomes "being born again/baptised," or "having eternal life," or "spirituo-covenant STANCE with God.”
[D] Hi John, :)
[ProphecyHistory.com] Nice to meet you.
[D] Those who took part in "the first resurrection" were "blessed and holy" (Rev. 20:4-6). The implication is that not everyone who took part in the subsequent resurrection was blessed and holy. Rev 20:12-15 confirms that not everyone who partook of the latter resurrection was blessed and holy.
[ProphecyHistory.com] Agreed. You are butressing my point all the more here. Thank you. Firstly, you just identified Rev 20:4 and Rev 20:5 as resurrections; resurrections of two different groups of souls. You state my case that Rev 20:5's resurrection of "the rest of the dead" CANNOT be equated with "being born again/baptised," "having eternal life," "enjoying spirituo-covenant STANCE with God." Therefore, I say, Rev 20:4's resurrection CANNOT be "being born again/baptised," "having eternal life," "enjoying spirituo-covenant STANCE with God," since as I demonstrated, the tightly bound verses of Rev 20:4 and Rev 20:5 employ the same grammar and vocabulary to describe what occurs to the two groups of souls.
[D] In the Received Text, "the same vocabulary" is not used. In Rev. 20:4, the Greek word is zao (lived). In Rev. 20:5, the Greek word is ana-zao (lived again).
[ProphecyHistory.com] This is grasping, especially noteworthy since 30-70AD Millennialism relies heavily upon associating similarly worded passages to make its claims. "Lived" of Textus Receptus' Rev 20:4 is virtually identical with Textus Receptus' Rev 20:5's "lived again." The bond between them is tightened all the more when we hold in view the actual passage "And I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast [Nero], neither had received his mark upon their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were fininshed." Verse 5's use of the word "But..." communicates that the notable difference between these two events was the timing, a thosand years later. Its straining to say that v4 is using "lived" to say "they were born again, received eternal life, attained to a spirituo-covenant STANCE with God" but v5 is using "lived again" to say a different thing altogether. The one who does this forfiets credibility on any other association between Scriptures.
[D] But even if we go with the Alexandrian textbase, which uses the same word in both verses, ...
[ProphecyHistory.com] A second weighty admission of fact on your part. You just said that the earliest major Text base in our possession, a Text base upon which many Bible scholars hold in such esteem as to prefer it for Bible translations, agrees with what I wrote about how Rev 20:4's Resurrection of Just souls employs the same vocabulary and grammar to describe Rev 20:5's Resurrection of "the rest of the dead." You are conceding much more ground than you imagine to be gaining. And the Majority Text employs the same word in both Rev 20:4 & 5, as well.
[D] ...the fact that those who took part in "the first resurrection" and those who made up "the rest of the dead" both had "life" ("zao") does not necessarily mean that they both had the same kind of life....
[ProphecyHistory.com] A third admission of fact: both the Just of Rev 20:4 and Rev 20:5's "the rest of the dead" both had "life" ("zao"). Again, you are straining to veer away from the plain words of the Text. You are trying to find a way to say that two adjacent verses, employing the same vocabulary about the same subject (resurrection of the souls of the Just and "the rest of the dead") are talking about two different kinds of "zao." Not credible, especially when one recalls what great lengths to which 30-70AD Millennialists go to make their points by associating similarly worded passages.
[D] In Rev. 13:14, the beast also "came to life" ("same vocabulary": zao). In Rev. 16:3, every soul that had "life" died ("same vocabulary": zao). In Rev. 19:20, the beast and the false prophet were both cast "alive" into the lake of fire ("same vocabulary": zao). These instances of "life" (zao) in the book of Revelation do not mean the same kind of life.
[ProphecyHistory.com] False. They can ALL easily mean the same kind of life: animation of a body. So can Rev 20:5. Further, we know that not a one of those mentioned verses can possibly be equated with "being born again/baptised," "having eternal life," "enjoying spirituo-covenant STANCE with God." So why make such a strained effort to defend this one stand out (Rev 20:4) to represent "being born again/baptised," "having eternal life," "enjoying spirituo-covenant STANCE with God" ?
[D] Therefore no conclusion can be drawn from the mere repetition of the word in Rev. 20:4 and 5.
[ProphecyHistory.com] Once again, you have just conceded another piece of my argument: you just admitted that Rev 20:4 and Rev 20:5 employ the same word to describe the action upon these two groups of souls. But you insist upon a false conclusion based upon strained, self-refuting arguments. Meanwhile, a host of truly credible arguments out there against 30- 70AD Millennialism's word associations fall on deaf ears.
[D] "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice [the gospel] of the Son of God; and those who hear shall live [the first resurrection]. (Jn. 5:25)
"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs [the rest of the dead] shall hear His voice, and shall come forth [i.e., shall live]; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment" (Jn. 5:28,29).
[ProphecyHistory.com] D, If you cannot admit to the plain connection between two adjacent verses (Rev 20:4 & Rev 20:5) from the same passage (Rev 20:4-6 – as you mentioned) that employ the same vocabulary ("zao") to talk about the same process ("resurrection" - your own word), then you wield no credibility to make any other connection, whether correctly or not. Let's remember how W's question limited the scope to a brief treatment of Rev 20. "Could you take just a brief moment and fill me in on how you view the Rev. 20 passage and how a wrong view there can open the door to universalism?" Why not keep the focus on demonstrating the relationships between the contiguous verses of the Text in question,(Rev 20), before attempting associations with more distant passages?
I believe I have amply satisfied W's question and overcome your (D's) objections. I may be busy getting a house ready to rent these coming 3 weeks, but will try to check in for additional interaction. Please do not feel slighted if it takes me a while. Please do not consider my firm doctrinal stance against your handling of Scripture here to be against your person. And do not feel shy to critique my words.
ProphecyHistory.com
*Feel FREE to claim as your own anything I write - while I retain the right to do the same the same with it.*

ERROR: 30-70AD MILLENNIUM Hyper-Preterism, Full-Preterism, Covenant Eschatology

 

30-70AD MILLENNIUM  Hyper-Preterism, Full-Preterism, Covenant EschatologyThis view holds that the Millennium (1000 years) of Revelation 20:1-7

  • BEGAN NEAR THE CROSS AROUND 30AD.
  • ENDED NEAR OLD JERUSALEM'S DESTRUCTION AROUND 70AD.

It incorporates the following errors:

 Are you not throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
No. I am only throwing out the bathwater. I am only throwing out the theories that have Rev 20:1-10's "Thousand Years" ending around 70AD. I am firmly holding on to "the baby," that is, the realization that: the Nero-Beast Tribulation is history; that Jesus has Returned long ago; the "Day of the Lord/Millennium/Thousand Years" is a past event; the New Heavens, New Earth, and New Jerusalem arrived at old Jerusalam's 70AD departure; the Saints have reigned with Jesus ever since; God's dwelling has been with men ever since and will remain forevermore! Emmanuel, God with us! The Saints have been made heirs of God and co-heirs with Jesus who has received all authority in Heaven and Earth!

 
There have been many concepts that have come out of Preterism that are disagreeable…
True.
 
...do we therefore cast aside the entire view?
We only cast aside the theories that do not fit Scripture such as:
I) Theories that posit the ending of Rev 20:1-10's "1000 Years" at 70AD.
A) Resultant theories that posit the beginning of Rev 20:1-10's "1000 Years" prior to writing of 2 Tim 2:18
1) Resultant Hymenaen heresies timing "the first resurrection" of Rev 20:4-6 prior to writing of 2 Tim 2:18
a) Resultant Gnostic-like heresies that make the Resurrection out to be
i) Resultant Universalist-Lawless heresies that add to the Word of God pronouncing:
"Since the blessed & holy martyrs 'came to covenant life' at start of the 1000 years, Rev 20:4,
then the 'rest of the dead come to covenant life' too, at end of the 1000 years, Rev 20:5."
 
 
For example you espouse that the Millennium concluded in 1070 yet even though I disagree, I do not cast aside the view of past fulfillment.
Exactly. You have just answered your own question. Even though I reject the theories that posit the ending of Rev 20:1-10's "1000 years" at 70AD, I do not cast aside the view of past fulfillment, either.
 
So you assert that a 30-70AD Millennium leads to universalism?
I have not merely asserted this, I have proven and documented it. Follow the links in the post to which you responded and you will find ample support for my statements. If you need still more, I am prepared to provide it. For the purpose of keeping this post easy to follow, I have left off the links I am prepared to provide to substantiate my statements here.
 
Well why can not the same be said about a Millennium ending in 1070?
NO. Because the 70-1070AD Millennium begins AFTER 2 Tim 2:18 was penned, so does the Resurrection of the Saints at Rev 20:4. This means that the Saints' Resurrection was a "coming to life" of their bodies as was the "coming to life" of "the rest of the dead" at Rev 20:5. The righteous are bodily resurrected as are the unrighteous, (albeit at different times). But since the unrighteous had NOT received "eternal/covenant life" in their souls prior to their judgment, (ie. their names were not written into the Lamb's Book of Life prior to their judgment), they are eternally condemned to the Lake of Fire ("Second Death") per Rev 20:15. This distinction at judgment between those who had and those who did not have eternal/covenant life gives no place to Universalism. But, as stated above, the 30-70AD Millennial theories lead to the conclusion that: "After the 1,000 years, 'the rest of the dead come to covenant-spiritual-eternal life' (Rev 20:5) as did the Saints (Rev 20:4)" - and that is Universalism & Lawlessness.
 
 
Scripture does not declare universalism regardless of what others put forth.
True. Scripture does not support universal salvation and nor do I.
 
Therefore, if it is shown a Pre-70 Millennium and universalism is unscriptural, your argument must be revisited.
I agree. And I thank you for your congenial attitude here that is rare in the discussion. My argument for a 70-1070AD Millennium is really the way to preserve the past fulfillment view through the withering attacks to come. My opponents do not yet realize it, but I have been pointing out to the them the way of escape and preservation rather than the destruction of the past fulfillment (Preterist) view of eschatology. When the withering attacks come down like unstoppable acid rain, those who who have read with an open heart will know where to find refuge.
 
 
See also: Resurrection-transformation of the mortal-natural body at Judgment
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Revelation 20:4-6 ~ foreseen around 62AD in the predictive vision by Christ's exiled Apostle John
And I foresaw THE SOULS OF those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
NASB
 
The Rev 20:4-6 passage is talking about:
Two groups of "SOULS."
A) The first group of souls are faithful martyrs of Jesus who rejected the Mark of the Beast (Nero).
B) The second group of souls are identified simply as, "the rest of the dead"
implying that both groups of SOULS are of people who are dead, (Christ's martyrs versus the rest).
It is their bodies that are dead since Christian martyrs (the first group) can never have dead souls.
Again, it is their bodies that are dead since Christian martyrs (the first group) can never be described as "spritually dead."
Therefore, Rev 20:4-6 is talking about the coming to life of bodies after death, "resurrection."
Both groups of SOULS were each coming to animate bodies again after death, "resurrection."

70-1070AD The Elegance of the 70-1070AD Millennium

Just because one has some correct ideas does not mean all his ideas are correct. Max King is magnificently correct in making the 30AD Cross to 70AD Return connection, while embarrassingly wrong in regards to his 30-70AD Millennium, (which leads to Universalism, LINK). Gideon was fantastic in his victory over the Midianites, but devastatingly dissappointing in his later idolatry. Conversely, just because someone is off on some things does not mean he is off on all things. A humble man will learn from everywhere he can, (Job 34:3 1 Thessalonians 5:21). Only Christ, the Word of God who became flesh, is the only man who is 100% correct 100% of the time with 100% of the explanations & answers. But that's why we need eachother, to allow Christ via the Holy Spirit to teach us, moving through one then another as the Spirit wills to do so (1 Cor 14:26-32). And we recognise Christ among us by His Word. Here's an excerpt from something I e-mailed last night to someone about this:
Someone might ask, "What do you think of simplifying it down to '30-70AD Millennium' vs. '70-1070AD Millennium'?" Now some have attempted to characterise the 70-1070AD Millennium as Partial-Preterism because we both declare that the 1000 years begin at 70AD rather than end there. But what distinguishes the 70-1070AD Millennium from Partial-Preterism is that it announces the end date of the 1000 years residing in our past already. The reality of it is that by putting an actual end date on the completed Millennium, it brings it all under the umbrella of "the past" (preterist) and avoids the unsatisfactory, worn-out, classic "Preterist v Partial-Preterist" stale rehash. It shows that if "Partial-Preterism" can make an adjustment towards a 100% completely fulfilled eschatology, then perhaps the 30-70AD Millennium crowd, ("Full" Preterism), could make an adjustment of similar magnitude and we find ourselves in a newfound powerful agreement in the middle: a happily united front of fulfillment eschatology.
What is so elegant about this adjustment towards a 70-1070AD Millennium, also, is that this adjustment clears up so many of the unnecessary and loathsome byproducts of "Full" Preterism (30-70AD Millennium) such as: unorthodox soteriology (universalism) and non-corporal, Gnostic-like deviations from orthodox resurrection. (I'm confident the Reformers approve of neither deviation). It also eliminates the betrayals of the time-text hermeneutics (J.S. Russell) that deduce the 70AD Return in the first place.
Additionally, the 70-1070AD Millennium delivers the full goods that Partial-Preterism falls short of. It pays respect to the glory days of Orthodox and Catholic, as well as to the Reformation. It agrees with Premillennial Return of Christ, while insisting upon Jesus' generation as the generation that saw Mat 24's fulfillment. It rejoices with the hope of Postmillennialism, but is free of its futurist loose ends. And it provides Amillennialism's millennial-agnosticism with a truly reasoned, credible, satisfying and long longed-for answer: we can know, we do know. And it opens up a new frontier of study: How the hand of God moved through the ages to forever establish Christendom in the dominant world position and bless ordinary men, thus satisfying the Historicist school while careful to point out to the delight of Idealists that all these fulfillments in physical history actually point towards the movements and glory of God from the unseen, invisible realm of the Spirit.. We get powerful internal support of Scripture-Scripture, convincing external support of Scripture-History, and a strong eschatological frame upon which sound, time-tested, classic theology handsomely fits.
  1. Jesus said He would Return with His Kingdom & Power before all those who heard His preaching died, Matthew 16:28 & Mark 9:1
  2. Jesus raised up the Dead in Christ first as He Returned at the Last Day, John 6:40 & John 6:54 & 1 Thessalonians 4:16
  3. Rev 20:1-10's 1000 years began at this raising up of these Dead in Christ, the First Resurrection of Revelation 20:4-6
  4. This 1000 Years was as a Day with the Lord = Day of Judgment = Day of the Lord = Day of God which was still future as of the writing of 2 Peter 3:4-12
  5. The Rest of the Dead were raised up at the end of this 1000-year-long Day of the Lord, Revelation 20:5a, in agreement with the ancient Church Creeds of the Middle Age.

Fuller outline ne found at: Brief Surveys of Last Day Timeline

Ultimately, what we're trying to do here is to proclaim the message of Christ to the modern generations that live in the 3rd Millennium since the Gospel's first proclamation among men.
And this is love, that we walk after Christ's commandments. ~2 John 6

70-1070AD "The Last Day": Christ Returns, His Servants Raised to Reign

BROWN = Before the Nero-Beast-Tribulation, during the time of the Gospels

RED = During the Nero-Beast-Tribulation, just prior to the Lord's 70AD Return

BLUE = After the Nero-Beast-Tribulation, just after the Lord's 70AD Return

Matt 25:14-30

For the kingdom of heaven is] as a man traveling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made [them] other five talents. And likewise he that [had received] two, he also gained other two. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. AFTER A LONG TIME THE LORD OF THOSE SERVANTS COMETH, AND RECKONETH [JUDGETH] WITH THEM. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: THOU HAST BEEN FAITHFUL OVER A FEW THINGS, I WILL MAKE THEE [REIGN] RULER OVER MANY THINGS: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; THOU HAST BEEN FAITHFUL OVER A FEW THINGS, I WILL MAKE THEE [REIGN] RULER OVER MANY THINGS: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. ...

OBSERVATION:

Notice how THE SERVANTS ARE NOT MADE RULERS OVER MANY THINGS UNTIL AFTER THEIR LORD RETURNS.

Now WHEN DOES PRETERISM SAY THAT THE LORD RETURNED? 70AD, NO?

So then, WHEN WERE CHRIST'S DISCIPLES MADE RULERS WITH CHRIST? NOT UNTIL AFTER THEIR LORD RETURNED IN 70AD.

Let's look at similar parable:

Luke 19:11-19 (circa AD 30, just before entering Jerusalem on colt, ~ 1 week prior to the Crucifixion)

11 And while they were listening to these things, He went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately. 12 He said therefore, "A certain nobleman went to a distant country TO RECEIVE A KINGDOM FOR HIMSELF, and THEN RETURN. 13 "And he called ten of his slaves, and gave them ten minas, and said to them, 'Do business with this UNTIL I COME BACK.' 14 "But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We do not want this man to reign over us.' 15 "And it came about that WHEN HE RETURNED, AFTER RECEIVING HIS KINGDOM, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him in order that he might know what business they had done. 16 "And the first appeared, saying, 'Master, your mina has made ten minas more.' 17 "And he said to him, 'Well done, good slave, because you have been faithful in a very little thing, BE IN AUTHORITY OVER TEN CITIES.' 18 "And the second came, saying, 'Your mina, master, has made five minas.' 19 "And he said to him also, 'And you are to BE OVER FIVE CITIES.'
NASB

LESSON:

You don't get a kingdom without a king, and you don't reign with Christ 'til Christ Returns with His Kingdom to reign.

See how this all fits in with Rev 20:1-10's mentioning of Christ's faithful being made rulers at the beginning of "Thousand Years"

Revelation 20:4-6 (penned circa 62-65AD at beginning of Tribulation to encourage rejection of the Beast & his mark)
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the Beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will [future to 62AD] be priests of God and of Christ and will [future to 62AD] reign with Him for a thousand years.

We see here in the vision Jesus gave that those who had been beheaded for the Gospel's sake and martyred for having refused to worship the Beast (Nero) or his image, refused to receive the Beast's (Nero's) mark upon their foreheads or hands, were to be brought to life (John 6:54) and made rulers (Mat 25:19-23 and Luke 19:12-19) at Christ's 70AD Return on "The Last Day" of the Old Covenant system. Christ's 70AD Return marks the resurrection of those who hath eternal life (John 6:54) and the beginning of His reign with faithful servants (Mat 25:19-23 and Luke 19:12-19). "The Last Day" of the Old Testament system at 70AD was the first day of the New Testament reign, the first day of the 1st Resurrection, the first day of Rev 20:1-10's "Thousand Years."

John 6:54 (circa 28AD)

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, HATH ETERNAL LIFE; AND I WILL RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY. ~Jesus

Notice how those who "hath (present tense) eternal life" were to be "raised up (resurrected) at the Last Day" ?

"Finally the final authority is Jesus Christ Himself. It is His words that we can not add to concerning the fulfillment of all these things." ~preteristartist

Again, WHEN DOES PRETERISM CALCULATE "THE LAST DAY" TO HAVE BEEN? 70AD, RIGHT?

Be honest with yourself, now.

.

And this is love, that we walk after Christ's commandments. ~2 John 6

Timeline: 
the Last Day
Day of God
Day of Judgment
Day of the Lord
the Day
Kingdom | Millennium
Millennium
His Rest
Martyrs from Tribulation come to life and reign with Christ 1000 years
Satan chained in prison in the Abyss
the Sabbath Day Rest
+ 70-1070AD
. 1000 YEARS

When exactly was Satan bound, cast & sealed into Bottomless Pit for even 40 years between Romans 16:20 and 70AD?

 

"And the God of Peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly."

~ The Letter of Christ's Apostle Paul to Christians living in Rome around 56-58AD, (Rom 16:20)

 

 

ONE QUESTION for those who insist that Revelation 20:1-10's

"The 1000 Years"+"The Little Season of Satan's Release"

all took place in the less than 14 years between Romans 16:20's "soon" fulfillment and A.D.70:

(Much less than 14 years unless we assume that God crushed Satan beneath their feet the very day after Romans was written).

 

DURING WHICH OF THESE VERSES BELOW WAS SATAN BOUND, CAST & SEALED INTO THE BOTTOMLESS PIT?

 

Every attempt to posit The 1000 Years+The Little Season of Satan's Release into period between the fulfillment of Romans 16:20 and 70AD presents a self-refuting credibility problem: It demands one lay aside the very hermeneutic that deduces the A.D. 70 Return of Christ in the first place, "Take all the time texts strictly serious."

 

First, a quick review of the Text in question, Rev 20:1-10:

1) "The 1,000 Years" is demarked by epoch events which define distinct beginning and ending points.

2) "The 1,000 Years" begins with Satan being bound, cast & sealed into the Bottomless Pit (Abyss) so that he could deceive the nations no more.

3) "The souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years" - those who were beheaded during the Beast's reign for refusing the mark of the Beast are made to live and reign with Christ while Satan is bound - the reward of their faithfulness.

4) "The 1,000 Years" ends with Satan being released for "a little season" to deceive again the Nations (the Gentiles).

5) After "The 1,000 Years," and after "The Little Season," and after the Satan-led armies are destroyed by fire from Heaven, Satan is then cast into the Lake of Fire where the Beast & the False Prophet have been awaiting his arrival.

 

 

Revelation 20:1-10

20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands [ie during "The Tribulation"]; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

 

 

 

Here it is now,

BETWEEN WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING VERSES WAS SATAN BOUND, CAST & SEALED INTO THE BOTTOMLESS PIT?

FOR 1,000 OR 40 OR EVEN 5 YEARS?

FOR EVEN 5 MINUTES?

.

And if you are gutsy enough:

1) Which exact verse shows Satan being bound, thereby demarking the beginning of "The 1,000 Years"?

2) Which exact verse shows Satan being released, thereby demarking the end of "The 1,000 Years"?

3) Can you organize these verses into 3 categories: a) BEFORE, b) DURING, and c) AFTER "The 1,000 Years" that Satan was bound & cast in the Abyss?

 

 

Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles
58 AD  And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.  Romans 16:20 ~Christ's persecuted Apostle Paul wrote to the Christians at Rome

61 AD  Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world [kosmos], according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:  Ephesians 2:2 ~Christ's imprisioned Apostle Paul wrote to the Christians at Ephesus

61 AD  Neither give place to the devil.  Ephesians 4:27 ~Christ's imprisioned Apostle Paul wrote to the Christians at Ephesus

61 AD  Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.  Ephesians 6:11-13 ~Christ's imprisioned Apostle Paul wrote to the Christians at Ephesus

 

James the Lord's brother
Before 62 AD  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil , and he will flee from you.  James 4:7 ~before Jerusalem Church pillar James was martyred for the Faith

 

Peter the Apostle to the Circumcision
62 AD  Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil , as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:  1 Peter 5:8 ~Christ's soon-to-be-martyred Apostle Peter wrote to the dispersed churches about their fiery trial

 

John the Apostle whom Jesus loved
62 AD  Love not the world [kosmos], neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world [kosmos], the love of the Father is not in him.16 For all that is in the world [kosmos], the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world [kosmos].17 And the world [kosmos] passeth away , and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. ...22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist , that denieth the Father and the Son.  1 John 2:15-18, 22 ~Christ's soon-to-be-exiled Apostle John wrote

62 AD  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.  1 John 4:3-4 ~Christ's soon-to-be-exiled Apostle John wrote

62 AD  And we know that we are of God, and the whole world [kosmos] lieth in wickedness.  1 John 5:19 ~ Christ's soon-to-be-exiled Apostle John wrote

62 AD  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.  2 John 7-11 ~Christ's soon-to-be-exiled Apostle John wrote

 

Jesus in the vision of Revalation
63 AD  I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.  Revelation 2:9 ~Christ's exiled Apostle John foresaw in the predictive vision (Rev 1:1 & Rev 4:1) for the 7 Churches of Asia

63 AD  I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.  Revelation 2:13 ~Christ's exiled Apostle John foresaw in the predictive vision (Rev 1:1 & Rev 4:1) for the 7 Churches of Asia

63 AD  But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan , as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.  Revelation 2:24 ~Christ's exiled Apostle John foresaw in the predictive vision (Rev 1:1 & Rev 4:1) for the 7 Churches of Asia

63 AD  Behold,I will make them of the synagogue of Satan , which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.  Revelation 3:9 ~Christ's exiled Apostle John foresaw in the predictive vision (Rev 1:1 & Rev 4:1) for the 7 Churches of Asia

 

Jesus revealed to John the Apostle by the vision of Revelation
63 AD  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan , which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.  Revelation 12:9-17 ~Christ's exiled Apostle John foresaw in the predictive vision (Rev 1:1 & Rev 4:1) for the 7 Churches of Asia

63 AD  Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.  Revelation 20:1-3 ~Christ's exiled Apostle John foresaw in the predictive vision (Rev 1:1 & Rev 4:1) for the 7 Churches of Asia
NKJV

 

 

Conclusion:

27-67AD: The New Testament documents more of Satan's interactions against godly men -Christians- during the 27-67AD period than all other history combined. Satan, the god of that age per 2 Cor 4:4, was walking about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, 1 Peter 5:8.

 

 

RELEVANT LINKS:

Honestly, does the Bible really teach that Satan was bound, cast & sealed into the Deep (Abyss) while Christians ruled with God & Christ throughout the bulk of the 30-70AD period? (Actually, wasn't such blessings what they were expecting to arrive with Christ's soon Return?)

When exactly was Satan bound, cast & sealed into Bottomless Pit for 1000 years between 30-70AD?

When exactly was Satan bound, cast & sealed into Bottomless Pit for even 40 years between Romans 16:20 and 70AD?

3 Questions for every 30-70AD Millennialist

30-70AD: Matthew 23-25 Last Days Tribulation - They knew which GENERATION, their GENERATION

30-70AD: SATAN walked about freely as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour

 

 

 

 

 

 

And this is love, that we walk after Christ's commandments ~2 John 6

 

Timeline: 
` AGAINST ERROR